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Warning [2] Undefined array key "lockoutexpiry" - Line: 550 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "avatartype" - Line: 811 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "avatartype" - Line: 811 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $awaitingusers - Line: 39 - File: global.php(872) : eval()'d code PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "style" - Line: 937 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$lang_select_default - Line: 5196 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "mybb" - Line: 1997 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$ratings_update_error - Line: 5 - File: showthread.php(768) : eval()'d code PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $postsdone - Line: 901 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 71 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 133 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 136 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 137 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 146 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 147 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 148 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 164 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 190 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 192 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Photon path ..
#86
Schmelzer wrote;
Something may happen in a very small domain in very short time, so that in comparison with the size of the whole experiment this looks point-like and instantaneous.  It does not follow that this happens instantaneously in a single point.  What results - a photon - has some sort of size, the wave length.   And even if the wave moves all the time with speed of light, it needs some time for a wave of the size of one wave-length to go through a single point.  So you cannot even define an EM wave by fixing, however, the EM field in one point at one moment.  But if you cannot even define it, how can you create it?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exactly what does one mean by 'a single point' ? What else than zero ? Take a time line of two seconds, and mark off a mid point - a single point (your words). What is that time value of that single mid point ? Zero. The first second is complete in itself, as is the second. Get as infinitesimal as you like - it is still zero. Therefore, no ADDITIONAL time is involved in that mid point. It is zero.

Convert those two seconds to light seconds. Same thing applies, if you say that no speed is lost and that c is maintained. The crossing of that point (of zero temporal value) is instantaneous. perhaps a startling thing to consider, but .. where is my logic failing ?

Interestingly, I searched for a precise definition of 'point' from a physics perspective, and it was difficult to find. But I found this fascinating thing;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_particle

For example, for the electron, experimental evidence shows that the size of an electron is less than 10 (to the minus) 18 m.[6] This is consistent with the expected value of exactly zero.


Exactly zero - now there's a surprise. And it's specifically about an electron.

PS - the separation marks between posts seem to have disappeared, so I've added the dotted line to differentiate between your post and mine.

Hi secur. Firstly, please understand, I am not pressing you to continue with this. I am merely replying.

ALT wrote
-----
So if reflection of the photon is instantaneous, you can say that emission from a laser is also instantaneous and if you are too stubborn to agree (not you personally) I would then retort ..“well, just make the photon in my thought experiment emit from a reflecting surface. THEN, it's gotta be instantaneous".
-----

Sorry that doesn't work, because SR (and Lorentz, and established physics) says ..

That 'because' may be circular if it is SR that I  am questioning.

.. photon reflection angle is NOT affected by the motion of the reflecting surface! Only when the photon is emitted does the motion matter - in my view, anyway.

Please see my comment to Schmelzer above. No speed loss .. point of reflection .. instantaneous!

ALT wrote
-----
In your most recent, above, in answer to my question “why speed and not velocity” you replied  “Because "speed" is not controversial but "velocity" is". Am I to understand from that, that the physics community bases it's theories on levels of controversy ? Rhetorical – the answer is probably, yes.
-----

No, it's only me trying to avoid controversy with that phrasing. Indeed I'd tend to say establishment physics takes the opposite approach. They seem to want to deliberately provoke controversy.

OK, noted. Controversies aside, we agree the physics community uses the word speed in the second postulate.
But I legitimately converted that speed to velocity in my thought experiment. I said earlier;

Which is precisely why I've narrowed it down to ONE SINGLE PHOTON. We MUST know that a photon fired from a laser gun is going to have a SPECIFIC direction, therefore .. it is now VELOCITY obeying the c constant.

You didn't comment on that.

ALT wrote
-----
I hope to hear from you soon.
-----

Don't hold your breath!

ALT, I intend to get to the bottom of this. I don't know how long that will take.

Secur, I am not rushing you or trying to continue this conversation, which is getting somewhat repetitive, in any case. I hope you do get to the bottom of it - at some .. point :-)
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-10-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-10-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 01:59 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 02:05 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by rjbeery - 05-10-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-10-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 01:27 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 04:32 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-12-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-12-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-12-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-12-2016, 05:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-12-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-13-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 05:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 06:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-15-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-14-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-15-2016, 04:31 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-17-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-17-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-17-2016, 03:04 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-17-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-17-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-18-2016, 02:27 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-18-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-18-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-19-2016, 03:29 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-19-2016, 04:51 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 01:23 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-20-2016, 01:52 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 02:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-20-2016, 03:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 06:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-21-2016, 02:13 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by John Duffield - 05-21-2016, 03:02 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-22-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-21-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-22-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-25-2016, 02:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-25-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-25-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-26-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-28-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-28-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-29-2016, 04:25 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by John Duffield - 05-22-2016, 08:51 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-23-2016, 02:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-23-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-29-2016, 03:23 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-29-2016, 04:59 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-29-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-30-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-30-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-01-2016, 02:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-01-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-02-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-02-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-02-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-03-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-03-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-03-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-04-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-04-2016, 01:42 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-04-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 02:56 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 02:40 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 04:28 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 05:19 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-05-2016, 01:40 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-06-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-06-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-06-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-07-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-07-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-07-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-07-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-14-2016, 06:21 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-14-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-10-2016, 06:19 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-12-2016, 01:07 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-23-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-26-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 07-10-2016, 02:28 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Thomas Ray - 07-11-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Le Repteux - 07-21-2016, 06:28 PM

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