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Warning [2] Undefined array key "lockoutexpiry" - Line: 550 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "avatartype" - Line: 811 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "avatartype" - Line: 811 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $awaitingusers - Line: 39 - File: global.php(872) : eval()'d code PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "style" - Line: 937 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$lang_select_default - Line: 5196 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "mybb" - Line: 1997 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$ratings_update_error - Line: 5 - File: showthread.php(768) : eval()'d code PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $postsdone - Line: 901 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 71 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 133 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 136 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 137 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 146 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 147 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 148 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 164 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 190 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 192 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Photon path ..
#79
Hi secur, my comments in blue.


Ok. Johnson is right that the light isn't "carried sideways". Instead, it shoots off at an angle, affected by the transverse motion of the emitter.

Agree with the first sentence, but the second ? I can't see it. Are you say HE said that, or is that what YOU are concluding? My reading is that he says that it is independent of transverse (or any) motion. Also, he mentions reflection and says;

A similar confirmation of Lodge's
insight can be found in the assumption (not exclusive to SRT)
that light bouncing back and forth between front-surfaced mirrors loses no time during the reflection process (i.e., absorption and re-emission process).

Firstly, what is the current view of the physics community on this ? And secondly, what is your view ?

The physics community has said - complained - many times that SRT is presented in a misleading way but never that its math conclusions are wrong.

I of course, can never get into the math. But it seems to me that there is an inordinate amount of 'wiggle room' in such important definitions, concepts, etc, for such an .inviolate' theory as SRT.


Ref. 6, Cedarholm, was summarized well by Johnson and I didn't check it. maybe I should.

I would REALLY appreciate it if you would and then let us know your opinion.

Wilczek is right, and is only saying what Einstein also said many years ago: there is an "ether" but it's not the old mechanical idea of the 19th century. Wilczek is updating Einstein's assertions in the light of recent data.

Lorentz is asserting the Principle of Relativity (POR): that we can't determine our state of motion via any experiment, EM or otherwise.

In the brief passage of his that I quoted ? I can't see that.

He says "many" (not "all") ..

Which does he say are not ?

.. because he believes length contraction and time dilation really do happen - and he's right. But we still can't detect it, because our instruments (measuring rods, clocks) are also contracted / dilated! Finally note the POR requires the angling of light due to emitter motion.

I don't want to go too much off topic .. though I'm probably not .. best to say I don't want to confuse myself with arguments about time dilation and length contraction.
I just finished reading a 27 page thread on this in sciforums (is a length contraction just a visual thing) which ended in the usual acrimony (mainly brought about by the resident scientists there - shame on them).

And after reading it, I was none the wiser. Some of the residents were in fact, skirting the 'visual image' idea.

Much earlier in this thread, I posted some revealing comments I had saved from years ago, from a discussion between some real heavyweights and mentors in physicsforums, which outwardly said it WAS a visual thing.

Wikipedia is quoting Einstein, who should have said the speed c is unaffected by emitter motion, not velocity. The angle is affected by motion. Einstein's SRT is wrong, Lorentz was right. SRT also predicts mathematically that the emitter affects the angle. But Einstein just doesn't want to admit it, because then there's no real difference between his and Lorentz's paper, which he stole the ideas from.

I can't comment on the math, but it seems to me, as I mentioned earlier, the wiggle room is quite large.

Does it sound like I'm shooting from the hip? It's true, don't have time to look into it further now. But I will, as the days go by.

NO, not at all. I appreciate your time and efforts, and I do hope you look into it further and that any future thoughts you may have will continue to be (with some wiggle room) in 'my' language :-)

Secur, re your post 78 which I will read more fully later, regardless of past confusion, what is the current unambiguous expression of the 2nd postulate (even today, I saw many varied versions and wording of it in various science pages) ?
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-10-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-10-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 01:59 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 02:05 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by rjbeery - 05-10-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-10-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 01:27 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 04:32 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-12-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-12-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-12-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-12-2016, 05:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-12-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-13-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 05:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 06:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-15-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-14-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-15-2016, 04:31 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-17-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-17-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-17-2016, 03:04 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-17-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-17-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-18-2016, 02:27 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-18-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-18-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-19-2016, 03:29 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-19-2016, 04:51 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 01:23 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-20-2016, 01:52 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 02:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-20-2016, 03:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 06:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-21-2016, 02:13 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by John Duffield - 05-21-2016, 03:02 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-22-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-21-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-22-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-25-2016, 02:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-25-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-25-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-26-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-28-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-28-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-29-2016, 04:25 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by John Duffield - 05-22-2016, 08:51 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-23-2016, 02:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-23-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-29-2016, 03:23 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-29-2016, 04:59 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-29-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-30-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-30-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-01-2016, 02:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-01-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-02-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-02-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-02-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-03-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-03-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-03-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-04-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-04-2016, 01:42 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-04-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 02:56 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 02:40 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 04:28 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 05:19 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-05-2016, 01:40 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-06-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-06-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-06-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-07-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-07-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-07-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-07-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-14-2016, 06:21 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-14-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-10-2016, 06:19 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-12-2016, 01:07 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-23-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-26-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 07-10-2016, 02:28 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Thomas Ray - 07-11-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Le Repteux - 07-21-2016, 06:28 PM

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