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Warning [2] Undefined array key "lockoutexpiry" - Line: 550 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "avatartype" - Line: 811 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "avatartype" - Line: 811 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $awaitingusers - Line: 39 - File: global.php(872) : eval()'d code PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "style" - Line: 937 - File: global.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$lang_select_default - Line: 5196 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "additionalgroups" - Line: 7360 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key "mybb" - Line: 1997 - File: inc/functions.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined property: MyLanguage::$ratings_update_error - Line: 5 - File: showthread.php(768) : eval()'d code PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined variable $postsdone - Line: 901 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 71 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 133 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 136 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 137 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 146 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 147 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 148 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 164 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 190 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Warning [2] Undefined array key 192 - Line: 907 - File: showthread.php PHP 8.0.23 (Linux)
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Photon path ..
#55
secur previous: Personally I strongly suspect that Lorentz was right, there is an absolute reference frame.
ALT: Ah! Isn't THAT then, basically a powerful doubt of SR ?
Schmelzer: Basically not of SR, but of the spacetime interpretation of SR.  It is the Lorentz interpretation of SR.
----
ALT: To say it is because of SR, when it seems that it is SR that I am therefore questioning, is circular nonsense.
----

There is a simple explanation for this apparent contradiction, as Schmelzer indicates. No math required!

BTW I've always used the term "Special Relativity" to mean only Einstein's interpretation. But I notice Schmelzer refers to "Lorentz interpretation of SR". I would call it "Lorentzian relativity" or so (without the word "Special"). Herein I'll continue to use my terms but perhaps should switch to his. Extremely minor point but a potential source of confusion.

Lorentz Ether Theory (LET), 1904, and Einstein's Special Relativity (SR), 1905 (BTW those are not the actual titles of the original papers), come up with identical math calculations: the "Lorentz transformation". So they give the exact same answer for any experiment. In particular if one says "the photon will hit the target", as in your original question, so will the other.

I refer to "SR math", particularly, for two reasons. One, many problems are easier to formulate in SR (although, again, the answers will be the same). Two, more-or-less all papers that perform relativistic calculations use the SR approach.

The big difference is their underlying physical model. LET assumes an absolute reference frame (which I sometimes call "arf"). SR says there's no such thing, all frames are equally valid. SR's attitude allows many problems to be formulated easily. But LET's model provides a mechanical explanation for the underlying physical processes, while in SR everything happens by magic (or as Mr. Calkin says, a "parlor trick").

So, for math calculations I'll often use SR, but to answer questions like yours LET is better; at least it tries to explain it mechanically.
That should clear up the apparent contradiction, I hope.

ALT: No physical evidence has been given as to why the photon is not influenced by the rectilinear motion of the emitter, but supposedly, IS influenced by it's transverse motion.

SR deliberately gives no physical explanation, and mainstream physics uses nothing else. We need to go to alternative theories for physical explanation. As I said, maybe Lorentz can provide one.

But recently I've understood Schmelzer's ether theory approach a bit better, and have "exciting news". I think it does provide a physical explanation for your question! When the moving object travels through the ether I think we can say it shoots the photon off at an angle for similar reason this happens with a ship going through water, or a plane through air.

BTW I was wrong in an earlier post about this; Schmelzer was right.

Roughly a ship or plane pushes the water or air ahead of it; it "bunches up" and causes waves to be emitted at an angle. The process is extremely well understood by the engineers and not controversial in any way. I've been trying to understand it better but haven't found any good ref's yet.

Schmelzer's ether is not liquid so perhaps the same explanation will not apply. But my intuition (for what that's worth) says that, indeed, ether theory can provide the mechanical explanation you're looking for. At this time I can't give any details, but it seems a real step forward (for me anyway).

Finally, your statement above is a bit off. All emitted photons are influenced by the motion of the transmitter. But photons emitted straight forward (or back) are unique in that their velocities aren't affected. All others' velocities are affected, they're sent off at a different angle, as we've discussed a lot. The ones going forward are still affected, however: their frequencies increase (blueshift). Going back, they're redshifted.
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-10-2016, 12:30 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-10-2016, 03:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 01:59 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 01:13 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 02:05 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by rjbeery - 05-10-2016, 10:37 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-10-2016, 11:33 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 01:27 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 04:32 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-11-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-11-2016, 03:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-11-2016, 04:20 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-12-2016, 04:24 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-12-2016, 05:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-12-2016, 02:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-12-2016, 05:11 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-12-2016, 08:54 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-13-2016, 02:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 05:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 06:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 01:28 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 08:37 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-15-2016, 01:46 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-14-2016, 07:12 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-14-2016, 09:37 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-14-2016, 12:50 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-15-2016, 04:31 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-17-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-17-2016, 12:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-17-2016, 03:04 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-17-2016, 07:03 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-17-2016, 10:32 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-18-2016, 02:27 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-18-2016, 07:26 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-18-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-19-2016, 03:29 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-19-2016, 04:51 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 01:23 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-20-2016, 01:52 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 02:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-20-2016, 03:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-20-2016, 06:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-21-2016, 02:13 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by John Duffield - 05-21-2016, 03:02 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-22-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-21-2016, 10:09 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-22-2016, 02:41 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-25-2016, 02:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-25-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-25-2016, 12:27 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-26-2016, 02:48 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-28-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-28-2016, 05:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-29-2016, 04:25 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by John Duffield - 05-22-2016, 08:51 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-23-2016, 02:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-23-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-29-2016, 03:23 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-29-2016, 04:59 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 05-29-2016, 06:38 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 05-30-2016, 02:10 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 05-30-2016, 06:36 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-01-2016, 02:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-01-2016, 02:23 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-02-2016, 06:58 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-02-2016, 09:11 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-02-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-03-2016, 07:01 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-03-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-03-2016, 02:56 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 09:18 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-04-2016, 02:59 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-04-2016, 01:42 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-04-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 09:53 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 02:56 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-04-2016, 04:54 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 02:40 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 04:28 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 05:19 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-05-2016, 05:56 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-05-2016, 01:06 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-05-2016, 01:40 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-06-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-06-2016, 01:11 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-06-2016, 02:53 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-07-2016, 06:30 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-07-2016, 07:00 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-07-2016, 11:22 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-07-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-14-2016, 06:21 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Schmelzer - 06-14-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-10-2016, 06:19 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-12-2016, 01:07 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 06-23-2016, 05:45 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by secur - 06-26-2016, 02:08 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by ALT - 07-10-2016, 02:28 AM
RE: Photon path .. - by Thomas Ray - 07-11-2016, 05:38 PM
RE: Photon path .. - by Le Repteux - 07-21-2016, 06:28 PM

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